From Burnout to Balance: Carolyn Gish’s Menopause Wellness Strategies

Maurice Castelijn:

Welcome back, everybody. Today, we’re continuing our journey into the world of menopause health. And as I mentioned in our other interviews, this topic is not discussed widely. And so many women actually suffer from this life-changing transition in silence. Now, last time, we covered the many challenges and opportunities related to menopause health. And we also shared some shocking facts. So, if you want to see that, go back to the other interviews that we have.

And it affects individuals, professionals, clients, patients, at home and in the workplace. And that’s why today, I look forward to getting more clarity, building more intelligence for all of us and getting real-life examples around such an important topic because we want to inspire everyone to learn about the menopause.

Now, I’m pleased to welcome Carolyn Gish, who’s an experienced Nutritional Therapist and coach, and has been working with so many women transitioning through menopause. 

Carolyn has 20 years of experience working with professional clients in both the workplace and with personal clients to enhance their wellness. Mainly women related to gut and hormones. So she’s also an established Communication and Connection Coach, and has been working with The Health Sciences Academy for the past two years, training both our team and our wonderful graduates.

Now, I really can’t wait to dive in. Firstly, big welcome back, Carolyn. 

Carolyn Gish

Thank you. It’s nice to be here.

Maurice

Now, Carolyn, do share a little bit more about your background, specifically what got you into focusing on gut health, hormones, and the menopause?

Carolyn

I was in the same area as you, as you know, in finance, and I went through burnout and tried to figure out how to, you know, help myself. And a lot of it, I mean, I was younger at the time, I was in my 30s, but I did notice a lot of changes there and got to the root of a lot of it through how my body was being impacted by stress and lack of sleep and balancing life and all the rest of it. 

So, I managed to heal myself through that journey and that got me into Holistic Nutrition. And then I started working with, again, mostly women at that time and a lot of these women, you know, are raising children and then they’re hitting in their 40s and they are now at this point where they’ve got teenagers and they’re maybe the height of their careers, at the height of their stress level really in their life. And then everything starts to fall apart. It’s kind of like the wheels come off the bus,and they start having hot flashes and they start having gastro issues and they start gaining weight around the middle and a lot of them say to me, “What is going on?” Like, why is it that I’m suddenly gaining weight, I’m still going to the gym, I’ve changed what I’m eating, and nothing’s changing, and I still feel bad. I wake up in the morning, I’m tired, I go to bed, I’m tired, I’m waking up in the middle of the night, I’m hot, you know, and then I’m cold, and then I’m hot, and then I’m cold. And often their spouses don’t understand because they’re pulling the sheets on and off, on and off all night. And it is probably difficult for the spouse to deal with, but it is a real issue. 

And what I’ve seen is just the change, and that’s why I became so passionate that it doesn’t have to be this way. And I went through menopause myself – I’m 59 – in my early 50s, and I had a lot of stress at that time. But, at the time, luckily, I had my career, so I understood it. But even then it was difficult – it was difficult to manage some of the things that were going on, you know, having to have almost extra clothes when you and I’m bleeding like crazy, you know. It’s challenging and embarrassing. This is the thing – the awareness of what’s going on can create that embarrassment. You know, when you’re fighting the most. 

Maurice

Yeah, could you give a couple more examples?

Because we had so many conversations over the past year plus, whenever we had a conversation, you always jumped in with, oh, this got health, mental health, menopause, and especially examples in the workplace that you’ve seen that were quite strong. Shocked me, in fact, when you told me about it. Could you share that with those watching?

Carolyn

Yeah, I mean, when I worked actually in the corporate environment for five years at a camp, there was a girl that I remember talking to about menopause. She had already gone through, she was older than I was, and she was describing how she was, and this was when she worked downtown, and here she was in a board meeting, sitting with a bunch of fellows and, you know in her suit and she had a scarf and all the rest of it and there she was you know suddenly a hot flash hits and she’s trying to casually take off her scarf and then to reduce the heat and then it was like okay that’s not enough and then she takes off her her blazer and sitting there and you know one of the fellows go, “Oh are you what are you stripping down now?” And she was like, no, and what do you say in that environment? At that point, this was a good, oh, 10, 15 years ago, even more challenging. I think there is more awareness as we go along. But there’s just so many situations. I mean, another one is women that have come to me, and they’re on anti-depressive medication, they still feel horrible.

And then I asked them, how did you end up on that? Well, I went to my doctor, and I was saying I was having these problems, and I thought it was hormones. And then they just go, oh, it’s just menopause. And you know, here’s, you know, you’re depressed, here’s an antidepressant. And then you have women that are just walking through that period of time completely in a haze because the antidepressants ended up just making them feel numb, and they’re not enjoying life. They don’t have any emotion anymore, and that is just sad. It’s really, really sad to see that. 

So working with women saying there is an alternative and did you know that, if you are having trouble with mental health and having depression, that is a symptom of menopause, you know, or sleep or the weight gain around the middle. You know, so many women were struggling with that. But I think what people don’t understand is that when you look at menopause, like I say, let’s go back to that stress piece, is that it’s like a perfect storm. You know, women reach that time in their life in their 40s. They’re at the peak of their career. They’re also at the peak of difficult, I would say challenging home environment when you’ve raised your children, you’ve got teens now. And I know little children are difficult, but teens are challenging too, as you’re trying to move them.

Then you’re moving from having children at home to empty nesting. And then you’ve got the dynamics of a husband and wife who’ve been married for a certain number of years and you’ve got that midlife crisis, all that perfect storm and stress has a massive impact on our hormones because of the fact that really as women transition, you’re having your factory as I call it, the ovaries are like, we’re done, bye-bye, we’re shutting down and we don’t need to do this anymore, we’re not going to have any more babies and adrenals, would you please take over the job? But then the adrenals are already in a fatigued situation because of that perfect storm of,

okay, I’m now working a job, and that’s at the peak of my career. All those pressures of life have already caused that fatigue. And then you see, when you talk about perimenopause, you know I’m talking to 40-year-olds looking at that women that they know that are older and going, holy crap, I don’t want to do that. Or they’re starting to experience some things that aren’t quite right. And of course, it’s better if you can get someone in perimenopause and say, hey, you know, the train has left the station, you need to get on it and start really supporting adrenal functions, you know, doing those types of things so that when you hit menopause and the factory shuts down, it’s not as bad. Right. But even just yesterday, I had a client of mine – she would be perimenopausal. She called me up and said, I’ve got high blood pressure. I was blue, you know, and she’s saying, I don’t understand it, Carolyn. Like I’m eating well.

I mean, she went through an entire diet. Like what am I doing? I’m exercising. And now my doctor says my blood pressure is high and I don’t want to take blood pressure medication. So what am I going to do? And again, that’s a symptom of menopausal changes.

Maurice

How do you identify that, though, that it is kind of connected to menopause and perimenopause? And do you specifically ask a question that kind of draws it out, or are you looking to build a certain picture? How do you sort of explore that?

Carolyn

Yeah, so I’m about building a picture, and you know that about me. I like looking at the bigger picture of what is going on in their life. So it’s asking a lot of questions, you know, what are you eating? Are you sleeping? Are you falling asleep or not falling asleep? Like are you having trouble falling asleep? Are you waking up rested in the morning? A lot of those questions, but I have a symptom questionnaire – I work with symptomology because I can’t do the lab testing. So it’s really about looking at symptoms, and symptoms do tell, our bodies are telling us what is wrong with us, you know, that’s really it. And that’s why I say the body is amazing. I’ll say hello, you know like this is going on. And if you know the symptoms of different things, then you can really track them. 

So I usually give them a questionnaire, and based on that, the answers to that questionnaire it will tell me whether their oestrogen is low, their testosterone is low, their progesterone is low, how their cortisol is, are they low in cortisol, high in cortisol, what’s going on, right? And so if you, once you have a picture of that, then you can also again ask more of the questions around their life. 

Maurice

Yeah, so you were talking about your questionnaire assessment, and you know, to identify the symptoms. And I’m curious, especially on behalf of everybody here, Carolyn, based on your experience, women going through perimenopause, what are the types of things that they identify or you identify on the questionnaire? What are they the most worried about?

Carolyn

So what I see is a lot of women start experiencing more anxiety. They’ll say they’re anxious, busy mind, you know, have trouble falling asleep, they experience heart palpitations. So I ask these, they don’t aren’t aware of this. I ask the questions because I know what questions to ask. So are you experiencing, you know, heart palpitations, almost like you feel like you’re going to have a heart attack? And they’re like, oh, my God, yeah. And I said, and more anxiety. Yeah, yeah, I noticed that I had more anxiety. And I’m like, OK, and what about, you know, irregular periods?

Yeah, yeah. And what is your blood work starting to look like? Like when do the labs come back as, you know, are you noticing more weight gain? Have you noticed that your blood sugar is off? Have you noticed your lipid profile? Because all these things in blood work, you know, I don’t run the blood work, but when they ask, I ask for their blood work from their doctor, I can see some trends. It’s really about trends. So then they’re also saying, you know, regular periods is a big one. So they might have a period, not have a period, or have extremely heavy bleeding, that’s a big one. That’s a big red flag. But also you can see those symptoms of like the PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, they start having cysts, they start having other problems. But I think the big one that I’m seeing. Yeah. I’m actually quite alarmed with the number of women younger that are with PCOS in their 20s, and then you see it kind of going along into their 30s, and then into their 40s, they’re really having problems. And that’s where you see where they’re ending up having to do surgery, or they’re going back to their doctors and saying, I’m bleeding out almost. Like they can’t control the bleeding. And again, that’s a hormonal thing that is based on too much stress and low progesterone levels. And so it’s those types of questions you’re asking is once you’ve been in the business as long as I have, I mean, I know all the signs that come up. 

And even oestrogen – it’s a huge modulator for your mental health. Right? And a lot of women will say, another one is I’m forgetting things. I feel like I’ve got Alzheimer’s, you know, like I’m worried about it because my mom has it. That’s the thing: you start getting paranoid. I know, is this a bigger problem? Have I got dementia? Is this early dementia? I’m like no. Let’s look at what are the other things that are going on? So that lack of sleep and are they and I have a list of what are the effects of low progesterone, what are the effects of low oestrogen and I go through both of those, especially those two with women,

and they literally at the end go, why doesn’t anyone, why has no one told me this?

Maurice

So what are the biggest issues or problems that you’ve come across? You mentioned you’ve got problems, but what are the biggest issues that you’ve come across just to illustrate how serious this can be?

Carolyn 

Well, again, the mental health issues, it’s a lot of women that are being medicated when there is a deeper problem, we’re not solving it. So they’re being medicated on antidepressants, but they’re still not feeling any better. So that’s a problem, mental health and depression, it has an impact on everyone. You know, because that has an impact on the workplace. You were just talking about how does this impact the workplace. If you have women in the workplace who are not getting the help they need, then they’re not being the best employees they can be. 

They’re not productive, right? And then they feel crappy about themselves because they’re going, I don’t understand why I can’t remember. It’s because they may be low in oestrogen and progesterone that is impacting their memory, especially oestrogen, and so what again going what I see is that you know um heavy bleeding is a big one I mean I went through that – it’s not super fun when you’re at work. You feel like you have to bring two changes of clothes because you’re bleeding out. And I hate to be so graphic, but that’s exactly what happened. And you’re embarrassed, you know. And so I think that has an impact on how you feel.

You almost don’t even want to show up for work. And you’re exhausted because you’re bleeding too heavily. And then again, the sleep, because if you can’t sleep, you’re coming to work exhausted, then you can’t remember. And you start to gain weight. And so that has an impact on the workplace. Absolutely. And I’ve seen that, you know, in many different circumstances. I mean, sleep is critical. And if people aren’t sleeping properly, then that’s a cascade of problems of being able to show up and be the best and productive employee. But, you know, the next one is really that high blood pressure. I’m seeing so much more of that. That is a concern. And high blood pressure, obviously, has an impact on cardiovascular issues.

And then we’re putting, are we medicating women when we could have, we aren’t really dealing with the root cause of why is the blood pressure getting high. A lot of these women are not overweight. They don’t have all the other metabolic things, and so they’re going, I just don’t get it. Like last year was fine, this year my blood pressure is, you know, high. And where did that come from? So I would say that’s another one. The weight gain is, you know, for women it’s just this frustration of now I’ve gained 10 pounds out of nowhere. I’m exercising like you used to, and that’s not changing anything. So then they’re frustrated, they’re going okay and I’m cutting out the one and I’m exercising like crazy, doing the bikini boot camp and nothing’s happening so what’s the point, right? And then they give up. And then they feel, I mean, hey, you’re in midlife, you’re hitting close to 50 here, or around 50. This is that midlife crisis, then they start to feel frumpy, and then they feel like they’re not attractive, and then that impacts their ability, their sexuality and feeling attractive to the partner. And then the partner doesn’t understand why they’ve become this crazy person, and then suddenly they’re great, and then they’re not. And they don’t even know why their moves are swinging so much. They don’t have control of that and they can’t really explain it to their spouse or their significant other, even their children. And then I think the other thing is, so you’ve got weight gain, you’ve got, like I said, the mental health and anxiety, that’s a big one. And I think then you can also see some possible gastrointestinal issues, you know, where they have more indigestion, you know, they do not understand that, memory issues, as I mentioned, and I’m just trying to think of what else.

Maurice

Yeah, in previous interviews, the word fogginess has come up a lot.

Carolyn

Foggy brain, yeah. Yeah. And you feel like you’re in a fog all the time, you’re not clear, and you’re not able to do your tasks. I’ve met so many women who hit that perimenopause menopause; they’re about 40. And when the hormones start changing, again, they are now being late diagnosed ADHD. Inattentive is what it’s called. Yeah. And so that shows you how much hormones have an impact on that area. You know, so there’s just so it’s really multifaceted. And I think that we need to focus on it so that men can understand why their wives or girlfriends or whoever is struggling with these issues because they don’t know what to do and they’re just seeing this person that they love not being the same person.

Maurice 

It’s true because the more I’ve been learning about this together with everybody here listening and watching, the more it’s starting to become clear in a way that this is a really, really important topic that people don’t really discuss much, if any. And especially in the workplace, we were talking about, and that’s of course where we’ve got a lot of experience jointly. And in the workplace, especially in the past, predominantly men. So that’s kind of one thing already. And then you’ve got things like this. What kind of things would you change if you had some sort of a magic wand or, I don’t know, 100 billion to spend, you’re like, okay, let’s go and tackle this problem here. 

What would you do? How would you envision the future could look if it were to be addressed properly in the workplace, for starters? 

Carolyn

I think that that which I actually did it and, you know. Eight years ago, when I was working with a corporation, predominantly men at the camp environment and in the Apache. And so I actually did lunch and learns. So it’s creating the awareness. When I did one on menopause, even women in flux, I called, and I had some fun names and made it interesting, and I had men showing up to it, which was great because then they’re like I need to understand this. I want to be there for my partner, spouse. And even for younger guys, for their moms. Like it’s really, if we don’t understand what’s going on, then we have no way of having compassion and understanding for the person who’s going through it, or even supporting them. Right? 

And we are talking about menopause, but that’s also menopause, as I call it, for men. Is that if women don’t understand some of the changes that happen, because men go through the change as much as women, it’s just not talked about, it’s very different with menopause, more complications, but there is, we’re doing a transition, this is a transition from being a reproductive cycle, and it really is important not to make it seem like it’s this horrible thing, it’s a transition and it’s a part of life. And for women, it really is taking that through that journey so that it can be a more positive journey. I think that is a better way to put it. 

And we can support each other through that process – it’s having supportive partners and supportive family and then giving enough of the tools and things health-wise that you can do to make that process not as challenging. Right? So I think in the workplace is awareness, and that’s what I found. A lot of men that came were like, I had no idea. Now I have that understanding that allows me to have the compassion to support my spouse, you know. And I also think it starts earlier than that. I think that, you know, for women we cycle all the time right period, like even in menopause we’re still cycling we’re just not having that period and so you know having men understand there is a cycle for that for women and this is what it looks like and so at certain times a month they’re going to have different feelings that come up because it’s driven by these hormones. So if you can start earlier and really get women and men educated around how our hormones impact our health, then we can make it less of a difficult transition, right?

Carolyn

So that’s why I started. I was with menopause, but I’m thinking, you know, I almost have to catch women earlier so that I can tell them what’s coming and how to support their body so it isn’t such a difficult period to go through.

Maurice

Tell me what you did about when you were working with women, and you’ve been explaining what you looked for. What did you do to help them go through perimenopause or menopause, which is of course the one day, right? Or the whole post-menopause, and the transformations that you enabled them to have. Do you have sort of, you know, maybe one or two stories that you can share and inspire others?

Carolyn

Yeah, I mean, I think one that I remember is a woman that came to me who had a lot of depression, and she was already in menopause and so a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety, weight gain, just felt like crap. And so she was on antidepressants, and so then I walked her through what was happening with her, and she was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea. So then really what I work on is obviously guts, the foundation. So it’s getting them on a menu plan and eating habits that help with better digestion, feeding their body properly. Then it’s looking at what is your sleep habits. So I look at that and give tools around supplements they could be taking, maybe some meditation, some amino acid therapy that I look at to help with the brain, to calm the brain down so that they can fall asleep faster and then wake up more rested in the morning. So I use a lot of supplements along with, I shouldn’t say a lot, like I use some supplements along with eating better. And a lot of women also, you know, along with that gut is not pooping. I mean, so many, there’s this thing about, I don’t know why, but it’s okay to not poop, except every three days, or something like that. And that the doctors go, Oh, yeah, you don’t have a problem. Well, no, you do. Again, you should eat, sleep and poop like a baby. And if you understand when a baby poops, it’s usually like three times a day minimum, if not more than that. So it’s getting the system cleaned out and getting them to a manageable place. 

Then, look at what is contributing to their stress. So, it’s looking at what is the contribution. So I would say with this one client, what I did is shoulder, this is how your hormones work, how is your gut health and it’s like aha you know it’s like that life all goes on and she’s like holy smacks I had no idea that this cause you know oestrogen was contributing, low progesterone was contributing, testosterone is contributing, my gut health wasn’t great. It’s just bringing light to what are the issues and then we, I started supporting that through some supplements and changing what she was eating and getting her sleeping better. And then everything started clicking in place. And then she was able to talk to her doctor and go off the antidepressants. 

And because we had behind the scenes been balancing the hormones through supplementation, this woman was able to get off the antidepressants, so she wasn’t sitting in the antidepressant fog, right? And with no emotion. And I told her what it was going to be like. She said it was like, at first, a little scary because her, I mean her, she started feeling the feelings again, but I worked her through that. And then because I had done the work underneath to get the hormones balanced, here she was enjoying life, able to experience the highs and the lows in a safe way, where she didn’t feel out of control, and gave her life back really, because before she just felt like a drone. I remember she said she went to her daughter’s wedding, and she couldn’t cry and almost couldn’t laugh. 

Maurice

Horrible.

Carolyn

Yeah, and so that was transformational. And then seeing other women where they’ve had heavy bleeding and it’s difficult for them to show up at work, etc. And then making those adjustments with that and being able to get control of that and their anxiety. That’s the biggest one I love working with is when so many women feel like anxious and the heart palpitations. And then I help them with some supplements that boost progesterone levels and explain how stress over time will have your hormones will be converted to cortisol which is produced during stress and so showing them that and then again giving the tools to help them reduce their stress, calm them down, get them sleeping and then giving them the supplements to help support that production of those hormones so things can start to balance out. And then they just feel so much better. They’re in control.

They’re not so anxious. And they’re not necessarily having to take pharmaceutical medication for anxiety or sleep.

Maurice

So we’ve really been focusing on this from awareness to transformation. So I’ve been trying to kind of let them see the light and where certain things are connected to each other and what kind of components would worsen or improve their symptoms. 

And you would then work alongside them to get them to then make those changes for themselves in their lives.

Carolyn

Exactly. Yeah, because the thing is, with transformation and change, they need to see what’s going on. They need to understand what is at the root of the problem, then they’re more willing to make those changes. But if someone just says, hey, you know, you need to take this to sleep better, that doesn’t really help. You know, they need to understand why I am taking this and how it is going to make the change because then they’ll make the effort, right? But, you know, the one thing that is another challenge that I hear is, you know, women go to a personal trainer, go to the gym, and the trainer says, we just need to exercise more and then you’re going to lose the weight. Or this is the worst thing I’ve heard, is women that are with doctors and they’re having all sorts of other things going on, like I said, the PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome), they’re having other rheumatoid arthritis, all sorts of inflammatory issues which are also related to hormones. They’re gaining weight like they can’t seem to control that, and the doctor’s like you just need to eat less and then they’re going but I already am eating less well clearly you must be lying that’s what they hear it’s just no I’m not but again they’re not looking at it from that perspective of really digging into what is at the root cause. It’s so important to be heard and understood, and you and I have talked about this, which is why I’m a communication and connection coach. 

Once we feel heard and understood, there’s that compassion piece. And then when people feel that you understand or even that you are compassionate about what you’re going through, maybe you don’t have the answer right this moment, but you can say, “I understand that this must be really challenging for you.” 

And I think that’s when you go back to what you’re asking corporates, shedding light on why these problems are occurring. So if we can spotlight over here and create the awareness, then we can have the compassion and understanding to be able to say, “That must be really hard. And hey, we’re going to support you through this process.” 

It’s not giving someone an excuse for poor behaviour or not doing a good job at work. That’s what I think a lot of companies might be worried about, but it’s really getting to how do we solve this bigger problem, and mental health has become a bigger problem over the last three years. It’s no surprise because the last three years have been extremely stressful for everyone. 

And so that stress has impacted gut and hormone health, which is going to impact perimenopause, menopause, and all the rest of it. So, again, it’s not, if we, if we kind of, what do they call that, if we follow the breadcrumbs, the answers are there. Like, it’s not, it’s not a big shocker. But again, if you create the awareness, then we can have the compassion, and we can provide the support. So, that was what I found when I did all these Lunch and Learns. I had no idea that my feelings were caused by X, Y, Z, you know? Like, I didn’t know that my depression, that I could solve that. I didn’t know that this anxiety I was feeling wasn’t just because I was creating it, or I was doing something wrong, or anything like that. Or, you know what, I haven’t slept for years, and you made it seem so simple. Now I understand where this might be the cause, and you can get me sleeping, which impacts my gut and hormone health.

Maurice

I’ve got a question for you from a professional perspective, you know, looking to get clients, maybe looking to do something similar to what you have achieved with that particular client or other kind of professional clients, how do you create that opportunity and where do you go through? Do you go through the HR route? Do you go through some sort of executive route? How do you even end up with the opportunity to get a paid gig, so to say, doing what you feel is needed for that particular company, creating these, you know, lunch and learn kind of, you know, environments where people can openly speak, ask questions and so on. How did it even start?

Carolyn

Actually, for me, I always say, divine timing. And so we started chatting, and then I mentioned what I did, and he goes, “Oh, my gosh, we need it; sounds very interesting.” So then I did a presentation to HR, and I said, what are you currently doing? And they told me and then I said, well, you know, because a lot of companies think like that at the time, so you’ve got to remember this is again about 12 years ago. Yeah, at least, yeah, it would be 12. At that time, they were not having paid gigs. People were coming and doing Lunch and Learns on different topics, but they weren’t paying them. So then they would get mad because these people were selling something. And so this is what they’re going, yeah, but the problem was that they started selling stuff, like selling their time. And I’m like, okay, let me explain something to you. Like, we’re businesses here. You’re a business, we’re a business.

Are you not profit-driven? Yes. Okay, well, we are too. We don’t work for zero. Like, zero dollars is not working. That isn’t a business plan. So, if you don’t want people to sell, they’re selling because you’re not paying them for the Lunch and Learn.

I would suggest that this is what you do: We have three Lunch and Learns in a row, a sequence of information, and it wasn’t specifically menopause. It was explaining all the way through general gut sleep, all that kind of stuff, and mental health. And I said, this is what I think it would cost. I kind of did some investigation. And I said, what do you think? And they said, sure, we’ve got to do something different. So I said, I’ll prove that after three sessions, why was this most highly attended. 

And people were able to ask questions and create that awareness, and got excited. I didn’t sell them anything because I was being paid for my time. I had the problem solution, three things, not too much, and gave them handouts. And that’s how I ended up just working. And then from that, I ended up, you know, doing some one-on-ones, but then the employees themselves were paying for that. So then if they wanted further help, then they could book me for a one-on-one.

Carolyn

But they had the bigger picture first. So then they could come in with laser-focused questions for themselves. But I think the thing is, when you’re talking about people wanting to get into this area or any area, is look at your own zone of genius, right? Like, what have you gone through yourself in your life that you can speak to? I think it’s giving people hope that you can solve things because I did it myself.

Maurice

And then I want to come to that part, right, what you’re good at, because there’s not widespread or university training or lots of things related to menopause. No. So it’s not something that you can go and look for as a career necessarily. So when it comes to, if you’ve got professionals, let’s say you mentioned personal trainers or maybe doctors, anybody with an interest in health and wellness or professionals in health and wellness, they want to integrate menopause into the services that they offer. What would you recommend to them?

Carolyn

Okay, so that’s, you know, we’ll go through the different areas. Like, as a personal trainer, I mean, if you’re a personal trainer training women that are close to menopause, you’re going to already be seeing that these women are having trouble losing weight. So I mean, they’re going to be talking if you’re personal training, you’re talking to your client. If the client is saying, hey here I am, I’m working out, nothing’s changing, like what the heck, then that’s where, you know, a personal trainer who’s working with women that are struggling to lose weight and they can, you know, train them until health freeze is over, nothing’s changing, then they should wake up and realise it’s not that the person is eating bonbons, you know, after the personal training session, that there’s other issues going on. Listen for what the client is saying.

So if a personal trainer wanted to bring menopause in there, it needs to be a reason why they do or else you’re just bringing something in for the sake of bringing it in and it won’t work. You have to have some passion behind this. So I think as a personal trainer it might be someone who is who has had a lot of clients that are perimenopausal menopausal and have had issues around that are menopausal issues or they’ve noticed weight gain they’ve noticed I’m talking about I can’t sleep at night or I’m so dragging their butt at the personal training session like we talk I mean people talk about what’s wrong.

You ask those right questions right you know. Well, you listen for it. And the symptoms as well that you mentioned. Yes. You listen for those things. You can’t really go, well, are you in menopause? That would be a strange and rude question, right? So you need to do this very, very subtly.

Well, I think it’s just really, again, there are symptoms that are tied to perimenopause, menopause or hormonal imbalances. And so it’s being listening for those things that you hear. You know, if your client is not getting results and they’re showing up at the gym and working out hard and they’re not losing weight, or they don’t seem to be gaining muscle or whatever it is, or they’re saying they’re fatigued all the time, then there’s something you’re missing. And obviously not just a personal training session. Like it’s not that the person’s lazy or that they aren’t working out hard because you’re seeing them work out hard. So if they’re not getting results, there’s something else behind it. So then it’s just asking those questions or listening to what the client says, and if you’re a personal trainer, so let’s pretend it’s a personal trainer hearing all this stuff and finding that a lot of clients aren’t getting the results they want, and they want to make a difference, then they need to go and get that education through people like you.

Yeah, where do you get that from?

Yeah, well, that’s where, you know, there’s you that has your menopausal programs coming up here and them getting some education around that. But I also think it’s important as personal trainers, I mean, you know, enough education, right? Meaning if you’re going to really impart change with them, it may be that you recognise that and you want that training enough to identify and do some work, but you still have to stay in your own lane, you know, because there is regulation. But I think it’s also, as I mentioned earlier, when we knew and I were chatting, is about having a team, like maybe a personal training, finding someone like me, or a holistic nutritionist that is specialised in this area. And you say, you’re aware enough, you take your menopausal course, you understand, but then you might want to look for someone who is a naturopathic doctor that can do hormone testing. So you want to have those referral partners, I think is the best way. You know, it is that you create a team of people behind you. So you take a course that’s going to create that awareness, and you can help the client too.

Maurice

So you’ve got nutritionists, you’ve got nurses, you’ve got doctors, you’ve got all sorts of different connecting professions.

Carolyn:  And that’s a really good point, so I mean if you had nurses, so a nurse could then be taking the education on menopause. So then, that nurse practitioner could have an awareness of the other things that are going on. 

You have high blood pressure, you know, do you have a genetic predisposition, is it because of this, and so then they can go through that, okay, taking off the boxes like it can’t be this, it can’t be this, it can’t be this, it’s this, it’s hormones. Right, okay, let’s explore that. Let’s look at hormones to see if that’s a cause instead of saying, “You just have to meditate.” Because that’s what happened with this client. She had no guidance around that. Her doctor just said, I don’t know, you suddenly went up in your blood pressure, but you know, we probably just need to get you medicated. So many women at this age have this problem. And then when you have that education that you’re talking about with your course then you can hear and you listen. You listen for, I feel anxious, you know, and then you can say, hmm, let’s explore the reasons why that might be occurring. So I think your program is really about education and if people understand, they don’t have to be the one that solves it, right? Because they could just take the program to understand, so then they can have the education, they don’t know, you don’t know the right questions or the, how to refer them off to somebody to say, hey, you know what, I understand what you’re going through, but I don’t have all the solutions. So I’ve got this person that this is their zone of genius, and I’m going to refer you to them.

And it’s not only focused on the professional but it can also be used by anybody who has an interest in learning about menopause as well.

Yeah, because if you’re trying to understand what you go through as a woman, or you want to know what maybe somebody in your family, as you mentioned, you might be going through to learn about as a topic. That’s also why we’ve done it, so it can be used in multiple ways. So Carolyn I’ve got one more question for you. What key message would you share with women about menopause? I’ve asked many of our past interviewees about this. Same question for you. So what key message would you share with women about menopause? 

Carolyn

Well, I mean I think the key message is that if you’re going through menopause you don’t have to go through it alone. And I think that there is you don’t have to suffer for 10 years or more. There are solutions to reduce the symptoms that you’re feeling, and and get into a supportive environment of women who can help you and even men who are out there rallying around you because you know it’s important to feel heard and understood. So it isn’t that you have to suffer through this – there are solutions. I think that’s the biggest thing is that we’ve conditioned women, oh, you just go through menopause, and hopefully, you’re going to feel better at the other end of this. 

It’s just part of the journey, and when they’re, and suffering is, I think the thing is, as I always say, suffering is optional. Suffering is optional in all health things, but especially when we’re talking about menopause. There are solutions to reduce that and to get you so you can feel yourself again and feel empowered at this time because this is a beautiful transition.

You’re going from someone who was a mother or had the opportunity or whatever, it’s just like your body’s going through a transition, and then you’re going through that stage to be that. And now you can provide some of being a different phase of your life that isn’t about having children. It’s about maybe helping your children have children or helping other people in your life with things. Because there are a lot of women who choose not to have children, and that’s for different reasons. But they still go through that transition, but now they can maybe help their nieces, whatever, and educate because we have a different role in our life at this time as more of a grandmother wisdom, you know, that women who have been through things to share. It’s celebrating different times of life. I think we need to celebrate this time, not make it seem like it’s not suffering. It’s really a change of life and it can be a positive change.

Maurice 

It can be a positive change – I love that. I think it can be positive with the right kind of support. 

Carolyn

That’s right. Because there are a lot of gifts in it. And we need to show that piece as well as – how do we help with suffering, you know. So it’s both things. It’s it is a transition. It’s a change of life. That’s what we call it. And it’s not bad. It’s like ageing, you know. It’s like saying that, you know, I turned 60 this March and, you know, I can sit there and go, you know, I’m 60 and oh my God, I’m old and all the rest of it.

Or I can say, wow, I’m turning 60, you know what, and I’m going to be as, you know, in the best health I can possibly be because I’ve got this next phase of my life where I’m going to be a grandmother and I’m going to be, you know, able to travel and I’m going to be able to do these things I wasn’t able to when my kids were younger. So it’s the viewpoint we need to have. It’s looking at the opportunity. And you and I, you know that’s where I’m big on, is looking for the opportunities that this can bring you. You’re again going back to: What have you been through in your life? And what are the opportunities you can create in your future based on the things you have gone through that you can then help other people go through those periods of time with less stress and feeling they’re alone.

Maurice

I love that. I love that, to go through it with less stress, without kind of feeling you’re going through it alone. Now, I think that’s our cue, Carolyn, to wrap up this interview. First of all, a huge thank you for sharing all of these brilliant insights with us here from everybody listening and watching. I also look forward to bringing the new Level 5 Menopause Health certification in front of as many people as possible, like we talked about, the professionals, as well as people who just want to know what on earth this is. We’ve been discovering so much over just a couple of years, so I can only imagine that we’ll be discovering a lot more going forward. 

So again, thank you very much, Carolyn, and also a message to everyone else here. Try to pay it forward and share this interview with either a colleague or a loved one because I think that they will thank you for it. Now, thank you very much. Bye for now. Until the next time.